The important detail there is that historically it has been “white people” creating beauty standards- and in the case of tans and bronzers and such- these trends in “white” society started at times when media and industry were largely or almost entirely white- as was mainstream beauty as far as control goes. What’s more- the standard of beauty for “tanning” in the mainstream exists within a spectrum that generally falls short of even light skinned “people of color” on average- not too many people tan or bronze to the point of being Jet black or lets say- to the skin tone of Wesley Snipes.
With that said however- dark skinned people’s around the world have histories of prizing lighter skin tones as marks of beauty that often predate colonization. In some cases the two ARE linked- many island cultures for example were colonized by lighter skinned Europeans like the Spanish, and these colonizers often had wealth, power, or status- and so those with ancestries linked to those groups who have their “high blood” are often seen or see themselves as socially “better” to those who have more native blood.
But India has its own history- a history that does involve colonization- but which also has a strong caste and family birth right structure in it. Indian civilization has mixed with various groups through time and at various periods certain groups were more in vogue or of social status- and India also has histories of racial disparity with- specifically Africa. Gandhi himself while in Africa referred to Africans with a racial slur that was the period and place equivalent of the “N-word.” His struggles for equality in Africa weren’t quite. To let the man tell it in his own words- he was upset that Indians were being treated no better than blacks when he believed they were inherently better than black Africans.
Black people don't like when white people promote black beauty products. Just sayin.
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Mandatory disclaimer: it's a joke, people, and it's all downhill from here. Don't follow me, I trip on my own shoes.
More so, Gandhi wanted to strengthen and embrace India’s caste system wherein everyone has their place in society by virtue of birth. There is a lot to unpack on ethnic and racial relations in India throughout history, and many different ethnic groups in India who look, speak, dress differently and have different beliefs and cultures.
So all in all I don’t know that it is hypocritical to speak against racism while using skin lightening compounds. These are popular throughout Asia- even in Japan and Korea. Asides that within a single “race” such acts could be said to be more based in ethnicity than “race,” there is a simple fact which brings us back to where we came in...
White people told white people to get tans. This was caused by changes in industry and society in many white countries (or at least the ones that set the trends in such things.) Tans were once primarily the realm of laborers and farmers who were usually socially and economically considered lower classes. As the standard job moved towards indoor work, and life moved away from farms and to cities- people with tans were people with the money and time to spend time outside for leisure- not sustenance. They were the people who went to far off tropical lands or coastal retreats for vacations. Solid many beauty standards- the tan was about aspiration. LOOKING like you were a person with the money and the lifestyle. It was “proof” you were “healthy and active” and not just stuck in a basement.
In many other countries- the opposite is true. The social systems and other factors set up an environment akin to the bygone “rules” of tans that used to dominate white society- namely that tans are marks of laborers and people of lower means whereas one who doesn’t have a tan is of a social status that they can be indoors doing some type of skilled work that pays their bills. They take cars and have the resources to protect themselves from the sun. Even being able to bleach your skin and afford such frivolities in many places is a sign of conspicuous consumption that identifies you as someone of more means.
So while there can be racial components to anything- this particular issue is more likely at its base a cultural issue and a socioeconomic issue which those things DO contain aspects of racial dynamics- but are more than the sum of their parts. I also must refute your rebuttal as stated- the comparison doesn’t really make sense on context to historical reality.
I didn't even know I had a rebuttal. I'm pretty sure I had a statement (which was largely humor based) followed by a joke
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· 4 years ago
@guest_ I have disagreed with you on occasion, but I feel like this is a very nuanced view which I can't find fault in. Nice one.
@xvarnah Perhaps it's a matter of lack of experiences, but I've never heard of anyone promoting bronzers or telling White people to become tan in India, nor anywhere beyond majority White countries. On your reply being a rebuttal vs joke, I want to take you at your best and not be too serious and all that, but I honestly don't know where the punchline is. I saw it as a rebuttal as well, albeit one that had no bearing. Probably just me being wooshed, though.
Granted I've never been there, so my understanding of India is based entirely on what people from that country have told me, but basically white skin tends to be seen as a sign of wealth out there.
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Out here they spend thousands of marketing hours convincing white people that pale skin is:
1) unattractive
2) makes you look physically ill
And 3) could really be much improved if you just tan until you're the color of a Brazilian, or an oompa-loompa - depending on which method you use.
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There are bronzers marketed specifically at white people to help push this narrative. Hell, you can buy tinted sunscreen of all things that will temporarily dye your skin a darker color haha.
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This narrative is pushed so hard they had to put an age restriction on tanning salons out here because so many people were starting to get skin cancer at young ages
It was a play on blackface. Nothing more. If you want to take it as a rebuttal that's entirely up to you guys, but given it was a joke I don't really have any interest in debating any responses to it haha
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People tend to be unable to laugh at anything even remotely controversial these days, so I didn't really expect it to go over well. And I'm not saying that's what your issue was or anything - if you just don't find It funny or don't get it, that's just the way life goes sometimes. You make a joke, it lands or it doesn't. Just saying I figured it would land poorly, and so I'm not disappointed. Just a little surprised at the way it did haha
@strangelyacoustic- thank you. @xvarnah- tbh, I don’t see the punchline either, but that may in part be due to the fact this is a text based medium and certain things like irony or glibness can be lost. Satire can be difficult to judge in text when it hinges on subtlety, and sadly in present times we can’t really rely on the concept that what we are saying seems so ridiculous that others will intuitively know it is sarcasm or satire. We can judge what we believe the case is based on what we know about a person (“that doesn’t sound like something they’d say seriously...”) but... and I’m not trying to be offensive when I say- based on our many previous discussions on other topics... I would assume on reading that it was not a joke.
I do appreciate how you pointed out the second comment on black beauty products was a joke, because that one again, until I read that, I assumed it was a serious reply- so the disclaimer helped a lot.
That doesn't offend me haha. I could very easily argue it from a non-joke standpoint... but I really don't want to. I already earned my klansman card this week - I'm good to go ;)
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(^ this is also a joke. Well the second part. First part is serious)
Asian "whitening" trend and beautiful standards have nothing to do with white people.
I strongly dislike the ridiculous standards about how one gotta be as white as snow but it really has nothing to do with white people.
White people love tanning, are you saying they want to be black?
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Mandatory disclaimer: it's a joke, people, and it's all downhill from here. Don't follow me, I trip on my own shoes.
@xvarnah Perhaps it's a matter of lack of experiences, but I've never heard of anyone promoting bronzers or telling White people to become tan in India, nor anywhere beyond majority White countries. On your reply being a rebuttal vs joke, I want to take you at your best and not be too serious and all that, but I honestly don't know where the punchline is. I saw it as a rebuttal as well, albeit one that had no bearing. Probably just me being wooshed, though.
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Out here they spend thousands of marketing hours convincing white people that pale skin is:
1) unattractive
2) makes you look physically ill
And 3) could really be much improved if you just tan until you're the color of a Brazilian, or an oompa-loompa - depending on which method you use.
.
There are bronzers marketed specifically at white people to help push this narrative. Hell, you can buy tinted sunscreen of all things that will temporarily dye your skin a darker color haha.
.
This narrative is pushed so hard they had to put an age restriction on tanning salons out here because so many people were starting to get skin cancer at young ages
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People tend to be unable to laugh at anything even remotely controversial these days, so I didn't really expect it to go over well. And I'm not saying that's what your issue was or anything - if you just don't find It funny or don't get it, that's just the way life goes sometimes. You make a joke, it lands or it doesn't. Just saying I figured it would land poorly, and so I'm not disappointed. Just a little surprised at the way it did haha
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(^ this is also a joke. Well the second part. First part is serious)
I strongly dislike the ridiculous standards about how one gotta be as white as snow but it really has nothing to do with white people.
White people love tanning, are you saying they want to be black?
But trust me, just BC it's white (pale skin( doesn't mean it's about white people