Good job, PETA

@guest I googled it and you're right, it's almost the other way around, wow. I thought the meat consumption was a lot higher. I have to re-evaluate my view. I guess I was projecting my own lifestyle on my worldview – I try not to buy stuff in plastic packaging, most of my clothes are second-hand, I eat meat about once a week and I own a few leather items that I've had for a long time, and I'm very much against fast fashion because I find it incredibly wasteful. I guess I foolishly assumed that people who buy leather stuff actually own it for a long time and don't just discard it when it becomes unfashionable.
I guess if everyone bought leather stuff to last instead of throwing it away a year after buying it, the industry would look a lot different and be a lot more sustainable. But that's just me being idealistic I guess. I'd love if you shared what you know ^^

@porch_light Thank you for the words of encouragement ^^ basically the reason why I'm not a vegan and why I don't like it when vegans preach to other people and try to guilt trip other people is because I don't think that it would be sustainable for everyone. Meat is, even from an evolutionary standpoint, a more efficient source of nutrients, because it packs more in a smaller volume, and most animals used for meat mostly eat grass. I think that for vegans to be able to enjoy their lifestyle, they must be in a minority because all the stuff they eat to substitute the nutrients in meat is quite difficult to grow and requires very specific conditions – y'know like all those superfoods that you can only find on like one patch of dirt somewhere in South America. And even regular vegetables need lots of land. Or they take supplements which, again, need a lot of energy in the process. (1/2)

At the same time, however, I very much agree with vegans that the average person consumes more meat than what is necessary for them (in some cases even more than is healthy for them) and this demand results in just really disgusting practices in the industry – brutal treatment of animals, feeding chickens growth hormones and then oftentimes filling the dead meat with water so that it looks bigger, keeping the animals in small cages/pens where they barely have enough space to breathe... All that, or at least most of it, I think could be solved if the demand was lower, if people realized that eating meat once or twice a week is not only enough, it is also healthier than having meat every day.
But again I'm being an idealist, as long as the demand exists, capitalism will match it with supply because some people would rather please the consumer and fill their pockets than treat others (by that I mean the animals as well as their employees) with some decency. (2/2)

I agree in many respects. Take the metaphorical need some have to “jump off a cliff” and go to extremes. If you want to lose or weight, get in shape, learn a new skill... the approach that is going to work best for most people most of the time is to make slow and steady change. Huge jarring changes are not only more unpleasant and potentially disastrous, but they also tend to be less sustainable. By introducing positive changes by doing “a little better” than before, and adding to that over time- you can build real change and avoid much of the unpelasantless of sudden and drastic change. For instance- people do tend to eat more meat that is needed or healthy. From a vegan moral perspective- any meat is too much. But advocating a global “cold turkey” on meat has made veganism very unpopular with a majority. Advocating subtle change- reductions in consumption- would be met with less resistance and more cooperation- provided it be done without moralizing and sermonizing....

... on the subject of leather, motorcyclists wear leather for protection as the primary reason. Given the choice of losing their own skin or that of a cow or kangaroo or goat- most will choose themselves- vegan or not. Modern synthetic materials have come along which finally rival leather in performance, but leather is still one of the overall best choices in protective gear. It tends to cost less for the same level of protection as more exoctic materials, it lasts longer, is easier to care for, tends to be more comfortable, more versatile, and is the de facto standard for a reason. Bikers are certainly the wrong crowd to advocate this to. Think of it this way- if you’re driving your car, and you have the choice to hit a goat, or drive off of a 1,000 foot cliff- do you kill the goat, or dive off the cliff? I want to go home, and to be honest- my life means more to me than the goat. As you say as well- vegan options are often out of a persons price range wether or be food or clothing..

Or other products. Some of that is economy of scale yes. But not all. The idea of wanting to do better for yourself, the planet, and animals is noble. But any noble idea taken to extremes can become at best a joke and at worst a curse. If everyone on earth made small concessions they barely noticed it would be a huge impact compared to a minority making huge ones. Over time as a society we could build on that. It’s easier to ask a person to have one less beer when they drink than to give up drinking, but over a life time those one less beers equal hundreds or thousands of gallons. From there you can ask them or the next generation to only drink Friday- Weekend once the change has become the norm. From there you can get to having one beer on the weekend. From one beer to no beers is much easier to ask than from 4 a day to 0 ever.

That’s one of the major flaws I see in veganism. It’s an all or nothing proposition that essentially treats and considers a person the same wether they Eat a bathtub full of chicken wings for dinner very night or they occasionally use lard in their cookies. It’s a hardline fundamentalism that persecutes instead of trying to elevate. Human nature already tends to make people defensive when they feel condescended to or their values and ethics are questioned or outright vilified- and modern vegan culture tends to go out of its way to embrace that and project a smug and superior attitude which is likely (as it often is) to be met with hostility, resentment, and resistance. Instead of looking to play “all or nothing” I’d say the smart move is to compromise in moderation and stop trying to be “outsiders” playing “us vs them” and instead assimilate and absorb the values that underpin veganism into mainstream society. If the values are there, the practices naturally follow to some degree.