Recognize that some people aren't made for deep conversations, for talking you out of it. They are good at small talk, funny comments, being relatable but not on a deeper level. Know that when they tweet out the hotline, they're doing the best they can. Not everyone is made to deal with you, and it doesn't make them a bad person. Just hope you can find people that can help you, that know how to connect on a deeper level than just 'how was your day? How's the wife doing?'. Some of us here at funsubstance can help you. Try not to get mad when someone else can't. They still care for you, they just don't know how to help.
Well said. I would add that while friends and family are an important support system for anyone's mental well being; they generally aren't trained or acredited professionals. While a "kind person" can often make a big difference, they can also do more harm than good. If you tell a friend you are sick, and they give you some left over medicine from a time they had similar symptoms it may help you, or it may make your health worse. They aren't a doctor and may not be equipped to supply the lengthy and specific care a mental health issue can require. The suicide hotline volunteers however are trained to help. A person may recognize you needn't help but more than they can provide and tell you to seek help from someone who is skilled enough to lend a hand. If anything what we can all do for mental health is lobby and support expanding the quality and availability of mental health care to all people so that anyone can readily get professional help when needed.
That hotline has actually saved me from doing it. It doesn't hurt to try to talk to someone. And there's a text messaging one too. I don't get why someone like me with a mental illness would be ungrateful for people trying to help. It actually gives me hope that there is people out there that understand what mental illness is.
Why? Because it's not their job to handle your mental health issues, and they should leave it to the professionals? Oh, wait, that's what they're doing.
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deleted
· 7 years ago
Hey @thatguyyouknow ,
Thanks for sharing your perspective. What are some things that people who don't have mental illness (and by extension, a lack of understanding for what that hardship feels like) can do to help those who are suffering, without the formal training that counselors have?
What have you found helps you most, and is from just the people around you, bot a counselor?
It not that it's not their job it's that most people don't know what it's like to have been suicidal since you were in high school and tried overdosing twice they just think that if they share thing on Facebook that they are helping with it instead of actually asking their friends or family if they need help. And some people only share things like that on Facebook because other people have shared it and they think they need the attention as well
@thatguyyouknow I'm still confused by your answer to @unklethan 's question. What are some concrete examples of ways we can help? It's been my experience (remember, my personal experiences don't reflect others experiences) that asking people if they need help or asking how I can help gets me replies like, "I'm okay, really. Don't worry about it" or "It's no big deal." So, as someone who isn't a professional, I can either inform that person's family or contact a hotline myself on behalf of that person.
If I tried to console a suicidal person, I'd probably try to appeal to their sense of strength, duty, or something like that.
Needless to say, I may just make things worse.
All depends on your depressed person and their situation. The first time I didn't kill myself as a teenager, I didn't do it because I didn't want to ruin my parents' reputation. The second time, I didn't do it because I didn't want my mother to get that much sympathy.
A) Always refer to the professionals where possible (except make sure they actually go), and B) as far as I've been able to tell, getting *them* to talk to *you* will probably help more than anything you can say to them.
How is he being a hypocrite? He never expressed anything to indicate that he though what he said was directly helping, or even that he was trying to directly help. All he did was point out how unhelpful, meaningless and stupid, that shit is.
No. I do not. Because he never once said that HE was trying to help. All he did was point out how unhelpful, stupid, and meaningless what everyone else was doing was.
i agree with @third, for once.
that's like the people who say "don't criticize someone else if you don't know how to do their job!"
so i can't criticize the mayor of Happyville if half the population is homeless since I've never run for office?
I happen to agree that tweeting the hotline # does almost nothing. But to your point, the people who tweet the # don't normally type out that they were trying to help either. So why is it that the hotline # people who presumably tweet with good intentions are the bad guys but the douche that takes a crack at them for "not helping enough" is intriguing and enlightening?
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It's a hypocrisy
Assuming your in the US, its a free country rose. You have a constitutional right to criticize whomever you like. You do not, however, have a right for anyone to listen or care.
So why do you care if @third says he disagrees with you, and why do you care if that one guy doesn’t try to help anyone? And why are you acting like an asshole just because i said i agree with Third?
Woah! You having a bad day? You guys are replying to MY comment.... are really upset because i'm conversing on a commemt chain that I started? I simply gave my opinion about that post. I didnt ask you to chime in.
I can tell you with utter certainty that I dont care what you, third or the tweeting guy thinks.
Not that you need it but I agree. Without judging the post or the right to state an opinion, it's at least kind of ironic if not hypocritical to chastise people for sending out vaguely to not helpful "sympathy/empathy" tweets by doing the same with your own non specific and vaguely to not helpful message.
@princessmonstertru
except in my first comment, the second sentence was rhetorical. i never said that anyone "had to care". what the hell are you talking about?
i said that I agree with third, and I asked a rhetorical question by using an analogy. can you point out where i said that I "have a right for people to listen or care"? because i never did.
then i responded with "why do you care if third disagrees and why do you care if the twitter guy doesn't try to help?"
and then you immediately switched gears and assumed that I'm "having a bad day because I'm upset because you're conversing on your own comment chain". wtf? no, I asked you three questions and you only answered two in a lazy, backhanded way.
right now, right here, in this specific comment, i'm literally only asking for you to explain where i said the things you're basically accusing me of saying.
You're correct that you never stated that i had to care. But two sentences in a row you asked why I care. When you ask why someone cares (twice), you are certainly implying that they must in fact care. And that sure doesnt sound rhetorical to me.
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You asked why you cant criticize the mayor of happieville. And my response was that you have the right to criticize whomever you like. You did'nt ask for me to add the part where "you don't have a right for people to listen or care", but after all, it is an internet comment section.
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My apologies for the "bad day" comment. It was an unnecessary jab intended to get you fired up.
Alrighty then.
I know that I “don’t have the right for people to listen”, but i never said something intended to imply the opposite. Why would I think that?
And i appreciate your apology. It did get me fired up.
@guest no it's not. It is only hypocritical if 1: you are actually trying to help. And two: do nothing else in addition to it. Ironic, maybe. That's a bit more of an opinion thing.
@third Did you mean me (guest_)? If so, I suppose it is a matter of opinion regardless. I said "without judging the post" as is in: in a vacuum. I do not know if this person does or does not help in other ways any more than they know if those other people help in other ways. Perhaps they volunteer on the weekends at a crisis center and didn't have time to write a full reply but saw this person needed someone to talk to? Perhaps they simply felt that public social media may attract the types that could make self harm more likely and want the person to get to a safe place to discuss. Perhaps they are socially akward but are helping as best they can? Hypocrisy is often open to interpretation, you may see the details differently. I see a person posting vague support messages for mental health while criticizing people posting vague support of mental health. I could see that being considered hypocritical wether I think it is or not. I still upvoted though even if I don't see your point.
The statement "mentally ill people need more from you than..." implies to me one should do more, or possibly that one should do nothing if they aren't ready to do more. Opposed to something like "it's annoying and pointless to post the suicide hotline number" or similar which implies frustration with the act and not the act of not helping. I had not thought of it as you say however. Upon thinking of it from that view: if we interpret it as "this is pointless" what is the point of pointing out it is pointless? Isn't that itself pointless? At which point they are tweeting a pointless tweet aimed at people pointlessly tweeting in response to other people's tweets. I would again say at its core this is ironic to hypocritical even if we change the definitions. In reality they are likely either trying to encourage support to mental help, or as you say maybe just venting. But again- I'm looking at in in a vacuum without context.
"@Princessmonstertru probably struggles with basic math"
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That line doesnt explicitly state anything but you can draw a pretty clear conclusion from its implication.
Sorry, i'm playing catchup.
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@rosebud, you said this: "so i can't criticize the mayor of Happyville if half the population is homeless since I've never run for office?" Which seems to me that you're making the point that you do indeed have the right to criticize people or say what you think. My reply was to verify that we (in the US) do have the right to criticize the mayor. I felt that it was worth pointing out that the right to talk doesnt mean that whatever anyone says is lagitimate, accurate, or that it deserves someone to listen or understand.
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You never did imply that you thought you had a right for people to listen. I just felt the need to add that in for clarification on the concept.
@third outside the autism spectrum people quite often do not explicitly say what they want or mean. They often feel you should infer it from context. After a date people may say "would you like to come over up and have some coffee?" Or something like that (such is the origin of "Netflix and chill." A pretext. Few will say "I invite you in because you are sexually attractive. I want to see if this escalates to light touching and heavy kissing. If that goes well I intend to have some type of sexual relations with you." Or maybe they just want to talk and have coffee. There is room for misunderstanding but that's why people are often careful not to create ambiguity in situations where the alternative isn't desirable. If your boss says they want something done by 4pm, and that is in your known capacity, they haven't told you to Do it but you can infer they likely are meaning: "You- do this by 4."
@princessmonstertru the way you came off made it seem like you were implying that i had said that I “have a right for people to listen”. I guess you meant the royal “you”? I took it as a personal thing.
@third that which is not inborn knowledge or instinct at one time or another is unknown until encountered. -Now, I will say you are correct in that it wouldn't make them a hypocrite. Only they can make themselves a hypocrite, not you or I. Since we do not know their true intent it may be premature to call them such. I have said one could make a case as such, not that it was so. The concept of hypocrisy has multiple possible meanings. In common use it usually referrs to one who criticizes another for engaging in behaviors or philosophy which one then practices themselves. I've stated why I feel this could be classified as such, but you have not stated why it is not, or fallacies in the facts presented; simply your opinion. I would not invalidate your opinion on how this should be considered but I am not speaking of my opinion, just that the possibility could be entertained that such an opinion could be warranted.
If you know that someone struggles with mental illness, make them cookies (or buy them cookies, or whatever snack they like), drop by and say something like, "I heard you're having a rough time. I'll listen if you want, judgement free."
*Unless the person you know would hate this. Just do something you know they would appreciate, and that you're confident won't make their depression, anxiety, etc. any worse.
**We should leave serious counsel to professionals, sure. But if I see a guy standing on the edge of a bridge, obviously considering jumping (as an extreme example), I'm going to stop him and have a nice chat about Labrador retrievers, while I call for a pizza delivery and also the police. Who doesn't love dogs and pizza? And the police will get him into the hands of professionals.
even if you're completely healthy, you need a counselor? that doesn't make any sense.
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deleted
· 7 years ago
People are supposed to get physical health check-ups, even if they're completely healthy.
Movember has some good resources on why we should talk about physical and mental health, even if we feel like we're at 100%
So the therapist can find some little thing I've handled well enough on my own but would surely disqualify me from my life's goals if I were to be diagnosed? No thank you.
I may be perfectly functional, but going in for a check for no apparent reason may uncover that I technically have a mental condition. Being diagnosed with something may make my goals more difficult or even outright impossible, regardless of whether I am overtly and negatively affected.
That all would sting even worse when coupled with the fact that there was no reason to get a check up.
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deleted
· 7 years ago
I can understand the bit about being frustrated by a seeming waste of time and money. I've felt that way after dropping over $150 for a physical check up with bare bones insurance, but that's another discussion.
What I'm still not following is how a diagnosis of a mild depressive disorder, moderate social anxiety, cyclic mood swings, etc. can make any goals impossible, unless the goal is to never have a diagnosis for a mental condition.
What am I missing here?
Being diagnosed with just about anything can make getting work in military, government, or emergency services very difficult.
deleted
· 7 years ago
I have two responses, take your pick:
1. Ah, I didn't know that. Still, mental health is just as important as physical health, so make sure you're doing whatever's healthiest for your brain.
...
2. Hasn't stopped most of Congress from working in the government.
Yes
We need more but not everyone can give more
People have their own life and trouble to handle and to them, it's difficult too
Mental illness isn't just a regular type of illness
It spreads with time
You can be 100% healthy but can slowly get depressed if you're not professionally dealing with someone with suicidal thoughts for too long
.
It's selfish to think that people ought to do something, anything for you for any reason
Anyone is allowed to put their own health and well-being over yours
Get over it
1.I don't think the point was to tell people they should put their well-being above your own, at all. I certainly wouldn't want that, but if you think listening to someone who needs to talk, or just needs to be reassured that you care about them is too difficult or is someone being selfish, I don't know what to tell you. I struggle with issues I was lucky enough to inherit from my mom. I don't expect people to do crazy things for me or to ever jeopardize their own well-being, what I do expect is for the people I care about to also care about me, and if that is being selfish, than I am incredibly selfish. I always make an effort to at least reach out to someone if I feel like they need it, I'm not a professional, but the point is to show you care and to make a tiny effort. A little bit can sometimes go a long way, and you never know what kind of impact you can make.
2. The issue is that people often feel alienated when they're struggling with something. They feel like nobody cares. Then a celebrity takes their own life, and suddenly support is being shouted from the rooftops, by the same people that the person struggling feels ignored by, and that's why I believe this post was created. If you can tweet out a hotline number or repost an article about a celebrity, I don't think it's asking too much of a person to send someone they personally know a message that says "Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I love you and I'm here." Everyone is different though, so if you're not capable of that, than I hope instead you have others around you that are, because a lot of people may need it. So no, you are by no means obligated to do anything for anyone as you have complete autonomy, but caring for others shouldn't feel like an obligation.
Remember that it is an ILLNESS........your brain is an organ like your heart is an organ. You can't see it, but you accept the fact that it sometimes get "sick". The brain is also sometimes "sick".
Thanks for sharing your perspective. What are some things that people who don't have mental illness (and by extension, a lack of understanding for what that hardship feels like) can do to help those who are suffering, without the formal training that counselors have?
What have you found helps you most, and is from just the people around you, bot a counselor?
Needless to say, I may just make things worse.
A) Always refer to the professionals where possible (except make sure they actually go), and B) as far as I've been able to tell, getting *them* to talk to *you* will probably help more than anything you can say to them.
that's like the people who say "don't criticize someone else if you don't know how to do their job!"
so i can't criticize the mayor of Happyville if half the population is homeless since I've never run for office?
.
It's a hypocrisy
I can tell you with utter certainty that I dont care what you, third or the tweeting guy thinks.
except in my first comment, the second sentence was rhetorical. i never said that anyone "had to care". what the hell are you talking about?
i said that I agree with third, and I asked a rhetorical question by using an analogy. can you point out where i said that I "have a right for people to listen or care"? because i never did.
then i responded with "why do you care if third disagrees and why do you care if the twitter guy doesn't try to help?"
and then you immediately switched gears and assumed that I'm "having a bad day because I'm upset because you're conversing on your own comment chain". wtf? no, I asked you three questions and you only answered two in a lazy, backhanded way.
right now, right here, in this specific comment, i'm literally only asking for you to explain where i said the things you're basically accusing me of saying.
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You asked why you cant criticize the mayor of happieville. And my response was that you have the right to criticize whomever you like. You did'nt ask for me to add the part where "you don't have a right for people to listen or care", but after all, it is an internet comment section.
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My apologies for the "bad day" comment. It was an unnecessary jab intended to get you fired up.
I know that I “don’t have the right for people to listen”, but i never said something intended to imply the opposite. Why would I think that?
And i appreciate your apology. It did get me fired up.
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That line doesnt explicitly state anything but you can draw a pretty clear conclusion from its implication.
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@rosebud, you said this: "so i can't criticize the mayor of Happyville if half the population is homeless since I've never run for office?" Which seems to me that you're making the point that you do indeed have the right to criticize people or say what you think. My reply was to verify that we (in the US) do have the right to criticize the mayor. I felt that it was worth pointing out that the right to talk doesnt mean that whatever anyone says is lagitimate, accurate, or that it deserves someone to listen or understand.
.
You never did imply that you thought you had a right for people to listen. I just felt the need to add that in for clarification on the concept.
*Unless the person you know would hate this. Just do something you know they would appreciate, and that you're confident won't make their depression, anxiety, etc. any worse.
**We should leave serious counsel to professionals, sure. But if I see a guy standing on the edge of a bridge, obviously considering jumping (as an extreme example), I'm going to stop him and have a nice chat about Labrador retrievers, while I call for a pizza delivery and also the police. Who doesn't love dogs and pizza? And the police will get him into the hands of professionals.
Movember has some good resources on why we should talk about physical and mental health, even if we feel like we're at 100%
That all would sting even worse when coupled with the fact that there was no reason to get a check up.
What I'm still not following is how a diagnosis of a mild depressive disorder, moderate social anxiety, cyclic mood swings, etc. can make any goals impossible, unless the goal is to never have a diagnosis for a mental condition.
What am I missing here?
1. Ah, I didn't know that. Still, mental health is just as important as physical health, so make sure you're doing whatever's healthiest for your brain.
...
2. Hasn't stopped most of Congress from working in the government.
2. Lol
We need more but not everyone can give more
People have their own life and trouble to handle and to them, it's difficult too
Mental illness isn't just a regular type of illness
It spreads with time
You can be 100% healthy but can slowly get depressed if you're not professionally dealing with someone with suicidal thoughts for too long
.
It's selfish to think that people ought to do something, anything for you for any reason
Anyone is allowed to put their own health and well-being over yours
Get over it