I know the absolute sweetest kids that will sadly be in high school until they're 21. I think that the socialization part is good for them though. This girl, Geraldine, is absolutely friends with everybody and is cheerful every day. She's definitely better in school than at home
They have a right to education just as much as anyone else. They might not learn as much as a typical child, or they might not learn the same things, but it is very beneficial to them.
The mentally challenged kids at my high school got everything handed to them. Didn't want to do the work? It was done for them. If we wanted help, tough shit you should know this.
No. That's not true at all. I have a pretty severe learning disability, and I've had to do every goddamn thing myself.
Teachers don't care that I learn differently.
I have one person who really supports me and she's my Learning Support teacher. What she does is help me advocate for myself. She helps me work through my homework, she helps me keep my emotions in check and reminds me to take my meds. That's all any of us get.
Nobody does our work for us.
Nobody hands us anything on a silver platter. We work hard to keep up with everyone and we sure as fuck don't get any special treatment. Nobody cares that most of us with disabilities take pills to keep us on track and that without them and without help, we would be struggling way, way more. We're expected to keep up, even if we have things keeping us back that we can't control.
Don't just glance at the surface of something and jump to conclusions, guest.
Lenny would you accept guest's comment if he/she had a user name?
Both guest and fruitcakecat are correct, depending what school you happen to attend. Many school systems have integrated LD/handicapped kids for political reasons, but have not hired teachers/trained existing teachers to handle their needs. So, some schools DO simply push them through without the help they need, while others are lucky enough to have teachers who can help them learn.
Ever think that your ONE experience from your particular school (either good or bad), isn't actually enough information to judge the whole system by? This is my profession, and kids are only put in classrooms that they can be successful in, and if needed, given one-on-one support in these classrooms. Public schools CAN NOT say "we do not want to provide xyz." They are legally obligated to support the student or find them another placement. And that is based on experience in-the-system, not just one school. Teachers and staff care about their students and do everything they can for them. If their is a problem with a child not receiving the support he/she needs,, it is often parents refusing to accept the fact that their child needs services.
Changetheworld is right I suppo
I guess because I've been to four different schools I just assumed they were all like that and did help those of us with disabilities
Three were within the same district and one was overseas, so i suppose ctw is right that we can't judge something based on one (or a few similar) experience(s)
Most teachers try (there are always those that don't give a damn) to teach their students, but even "normal" students (please note that I put it in quotes) do not always all learn the same way. Many educators I have spoken with say that they are more or less overwhelmed when they have an "LD" student(s) added to already hectic classrooms, almost always without any additional help, and almost all have felt they were not able to give those students the best educations. The size of the classes, the strengths of the teachers, the levels of the students' learning difficulties, and the emphasis the school district puts on standardized testing and cranking students out to get federal funds vary widely, of course. I am currently studying psychology, and am toying with the idea of going into education, so these topics "interest" me.
I think the idea of "schools for handicapped kids" should be more widespread. We only have one where I live, but it helps lots of kids be more successful. People should implement this idea everywhere!
"Special" schools WERE more widespread, but political correctness says that treating kids with learning disabilities or mental retardation differently than "normal" kids is bad. We still have one where I live, but most have been closed or repurposed. This is why many LD students are put in regular classrooms, (this is called "mainstreaming") and do not get the specialized help they need. Or, I have seen the opposite where the "normal" students are slowed down so as not to surpass the LD kids. None of this helps either population.
The idea of "separate but equal" was found not to be true. It is very beneficial for those children to be in mainstream classrooms. How are they supposed to learn to function in society, if they have been separated from it their whole life? Unless you want to put them in some kind of facility to keep them separate as adults, too.
They were not sealed in isolation chambers in LD class. They were simply in a classroom environment that was more sensitive to their needs. The bleeding heart complaint was that they were made fun of for being in "special" classrooms and might feel inferior. I do not argue this. However, putting them in the regular classrooms only serves to put whatever difficulties they may have in plain view of the rest of the students. Assholes are assholes, and it doesn't matter if they "think" the LD students are stupid because they are in a special class or they "know" they are stupid because they see these students and their difficulties. What matters is what is best for the students with difficulties. Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I am not saying students with learning difficulties are stupid; I am referring to what a bully might think. There are two points that always get lost in this discussion (I don't mean here on fs). cont.
Those points are the difference between an average student who is having a difficult time learning a subject or subjects in a normally paced classroom, and those with actual cognitive impairments. Those who are mentally retarded (I realize this term is not PC but it is medically accurate) are another subject, and one I am not addressing. The second, and I think most important, point is that very few schools provide for teacher training and/or additional teachers in these mainstreamed classrooms to accommodate students who need extra attention or alternate teaching methods. They are usually just thrown in the mix and left to fend for themselves. In short, I do not object to integrating the classrooms, and the reasons most school systems give for doing it are legitimate. I do object to the half-assed way I have seen it done.
Yeah, I think you have a point, about the 'mainstreaming', and I think it's an ongoing debate because both sides have pros and cons. I really didn't think of the future aspect of the children's lives.
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· 8 years ago
guestwho - I think somebody is downvoting you without reading anything you've said. I am a special education teacher and everything you say is true. One year I taught a self-contained class room for students with severe learning disabilities and some were bullied and some were not. One of my students was on the student council. They had the opportunity to learn at their speed and what they needed to learn. Unfortunately, the powers that be, decided to main stream them. Over half dropped out of school because they were being taught any more. They were getting in trouble because they couldn't keep up, getting distracted and getting bullied. Over half dropped out of school. I currently teach the severely MR in a self-contained class room and these kids are doing great.
I agree that MR/DD children should probably be taught in dedicated classrooms, and specifically by properly trained teachers. This is because of their special needs, not because I think they should be hidden away. Non-developmentally disabled students who simply have learning difficulties should be "mainstreamed", but additional resources for both the students and teachers need to be made more available. When I was in grade school I had difficultly in math, and most likely would have been labelled "LD" if the small school I went to actually had LD classes. By highschool I had improved dramatically (no thanks at all to the school) and took four times the required math credits because I needed the practice. I know I was an exception because I saw many classmates either get passed without learning anything or drop out because they couldn't get the help they needed.
The benefit of having a special needs student mainstreamed in the regular classroom is mutual. Once you have witnessed the difficult student help the special needs student, then you will understand. It's about compassion, which is in short supply and can't be taught from a book.
In my experience this scenario is exceedingly rare. As you stated, it's about someone's idea of "compassion", it is not about what is best for the students. You, and so many others, also forget that there is a marked difference between a student who simply learns slower than his peers, and a student with a true cognitive disability. The politically correct idea of mainstreaming does not take truely special needs into account. Teachers, at least the ones that really care and do not simply shove their students through the system, have a difficult enough time giving each student the time they need without forcing them to try to learn how to tackle special needs students as well. The special needs student who needs the dedicated attention is not well served in a mainstreamed classroom.
I see your point. But if your going to get into the conversation about providing accommodations and therapy then I think you're missing my point. I think the original post was searching for a reason why.
You can do both. It's possible to have a special needs student with an additional one-on-one teacher to provide instructional and physical support (bathroom, cafeteria, transportation) along with an army of therapists (speech, physical, etc.) at the school. I agree that "handicapped kids" get extra help in school. They will also get assistance after school is over for the rest of their life because they require it. We don't know how good we have it until we can see how someone without our ability still have success. Now...if we can have that experience in a school and have students support "handicapped kids"...that's compassion.
Exactly right. Don't swamp the teachers and don't just let the LD kids struggle to keep up. I don't see that it matters WHERE you teach a child with a learning difficulty, it only matters that you do. As for the other students, I think a zero tolerance policy on bullying is completely warranted.
I agree...thanks for the discourse. Now back to more Trump memes and cat videos. Also, I would like to request more weird stuff found in weird places under weird circumstances.
No the premise was that every child gets the help he needs to succeed. A noble sentiment. The reality, of course, is standardized testing and production line school years. As is typical of all bureaucracies, people who didn't know jack about education passed arbitrary laws and moved on to their next press conference. It has only gotten worse with Obama's Every Student Succeeds Act and Common Core curriculum.
Aren't there special schools already? I think there totally are schools for special kids, at least in my country. I even had a classmate in first class of elementary school who got moved to a special school. He was a nice kid, just very, very slow.
Then even I got moved to a "special" school, but a different kind of special, meaning an elite school. I think that sorting kids by their abilities so that some kids can learn faster and some can take their time without feeling pressurized is a good thing no matter what some people say.
They are not nearly as common as they once were here in the States. There are still schools for those with true mental retardation, but even those students are sometimes "mainstreamed" in regular classes. When I was in school students with learning disabilities/difficulties were usually just put in different classrooms in the regular school. Usually just for whatever class or classes they had difficulty with, not for the whole school day. This is pretty much not done anymore.
That sucks. This system, along with rewarding people for absolutely menial tasks which is a thing that keeps getting more and more popular nowadays, is what makes special needs people struggle and talented people gravitate towards mediocrity.
They really aren't. They still work for their diplomas and they work twice as hard as everybody else, even with extra time. They are often the nicest people in the world, and in my experience they don't get bullied at all. They're welcomed and smiled at. If anything, it's the social part of high school that they have the easiest time with because they are loved. If someone talks about a special ed kid, you'll hear them say how nice they are. They are sometimes the best because they persevere through the hard work and still are sweet people
They shouldn't be pushed, they should be guided. The more those with challenges are incorporated with "main stream" kids, the more they will be able to function and thrive as adults.
It also helps "main stream" kids to experience people with disabilities. Many of them are amazing people, but we keep them at arms length and never get to know them or understand a different way of seeing the world.
I followed this post after commenting on it awhile back. I don't know if the original poster intended to create such an outlet for this topic but I am wowed by the responses.
I don't know if it's just the jargon being thrown around or what but I think we may have some teachers on here.
Teachers don't care that I learn differently.
I have one person who really supports me and she's my Learning Support teacher. What she does is help me advocate for myself. She helps me work through my homework, she helps me keep my emotions in check and reminds me to take my meds. That's all any of us get.
Nobody does our work for us.
Nobody hands us anything on a silver platter. We work hard to keep up with everyone and we sure as fuck don't get any special treatment. Nobody cares that most of us with disabilities take pills to keep us on track and that without them and without help, we would be struggling way, way more. We're expected to keep up, even if we have things keeping us back that we can't control.
Don't just glance at the surface of something and jump to conclusions, guest.
Both guest and fruitcakecat are correct, depending what school you happen to attend. Many school systems have integrated LD/handicapped kids for political reasons, but have not hired teachers/trained existing teachers to handle their needs. So, some schools DO simply push them through without the help they need, while others are lucky enough to have teachers who can help them learn.
no but don't you find guests are more dicks than normal users
thats because they can hide behind the shroud of anonymity
I guess because I've been to four different schools I just assumed they were all like that and did help those of us with disabilities
Three were within the same district and one was overseas, so i suppose ctw is right that we can't judge something based on one (or a few similar) experience(s)
A REALLY REALLY BAD IDEA
Then even I got moved to a "special" school, but a different kind of special, meaning an elite school. I think that sorting kids by their abilities so that some kids can learn faster and some can take their time without feeling pressurized is a good thing no matter what some people say.
They are in my experience. They're not held to nearly the same standard as everyone else who earns a diploma.
It also helps "main stream" kids to experience people with disabilities. Many of them are amazing people, but we keep them at arms length and never get to know them or understand a different way of seeing the world.
I don't know if it's just the jargon being thrown around or what but I think we may have some teachers on here.
just like you need one less chromosome